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Topic: Midway Invasion

Lonegunman
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I have always believed that had the Japanese Invaded Midway at the same time they attacked Pearl Harbor that the war in the Pacific might have had a different outcome or at least would have been extended by a considerable amount. Any opinions on this subject?

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-gbotto600-
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Well an invasion of Midway would have pulled carriers away from the 'Pearl Harbor' strike, so they could have 'attempted' it but they wouldn't have had made such an effect as they did with all their carriers and naval planes attacking one place at once

If they did split their forces for a 2-part attack it may have failed at one of the points, remeber Wake Island, where a small Marine Corp garrison and some construction workers held off the Japanese for quite some time before they were over-run... [Smile]

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Revolutionairy
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Wouldn't have made a difference

The nuke ended the war so the fact that the jap took an island or not would have made not a lot of difference....

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Lonegunman
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Both good points. However, I believe the Japanaese could have pulled off both the attack on Pearl Harbor and an invasion of Midway with dire consequences to the U.S. for these reasons:

@ gbotto:
The attack on Pearl Harbor was not intended to be an invasion of the islands. The intent was to destroy the U.S. Pacific naval fleet. The forces needed to accomplish this and the forces needed to invade Midway would therefore be vastly different.( Don't confuse this with the actual battle of Midway. Though the Japanese intended to invade it, their objective was still the same as Pearl Harbor:the carriers.
Therefore they would need a strong armada whose main weapons were carriers which they had.) If they, however, had invaded Midway at the same time they attacked Pearl Harbor they would not have needed a carrier strike force. The main body would have been comprised of cruisers and destroyers and smaller carriers along with invasion troops. Remember, the attack on Pearl Harbor was totlaly by surprise. There is no reason to believe that an invasion of Midway at the same time would not have been totaly by surprise also. And Midway's defenses were far less than that of Pearl Harbor's. Cruisers, destroyers, small carriers (which the Japanese had quite a few of) along with a sizeable invasion force (troops) would have been more than adequate. The attack on Pearl Harbor and their objectives would in no way have suffered. I believe that had the Japanese done this they could have withdrawn their Pearl Harbor strike force back to Midway (the Midway invasion would have long been decided by then) which would have given them the opprtunity to finish off what was left of the U.S. Pacific fleet in the event that the United States decided upon a counter strike at midway (which would have been foolish) and would have also been a knife at the throat of the West Coast. The combined forces of the Pearl Harbor Strike force and the Midway invasion fleet would have been more than enough to finish off the U.S. naval fleet. As far as the meager defenses on Midway and your reference to Wake Island: worse case scenario would have been the Pearl Harbor Strike force withdrawing to Midway after their attack and having to send in their carrier planes to support the Midway invasion troops. This however, would almost certainly not have been the case. 50,000 japanese soilders would have been more than enough to overrun the island in just a few hours. By the time the Pearl Harbor strike force had finished their nasty business and withdrawn to Midway, Midway would have already been secured. @Revolutionay: It would have made a tremendous difference. A successuful invasion of Midway would have enabled the japanese to set up a base on Midway which would have given the japanese the ability to strike at the West Coast. The mere threat of this would almost have surely left the U.S. with no choice but to sue for peace. You have to remember one important aspect of this scenario: the strike at Pearl Harbor and its devastating affect on the U.S. Pacific Fleet. If the United States opted to counter strike at Midway, it would have been nothing short of desastorous. What was left of their fleet would have been destroyed by the combined fleets of the midway invasion force and the Pearl Harbor strike force. The option to counter strike at Midway would in all likelihood have been dismissed. That leaves only one option to the United States: sue for peace or have the threat of a West Coast invasion hanging over our heads.

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2-D..

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would i be right in saying if the Japanese had taken Midway and then continued to push across the atlantic then Japan would of been out of the range of the US bombers therefore stopping them from being able to drop the nuke?

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-gbotto600-
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the US could have flown the B-29s out of bases in China or the Soviet Union

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2-D..

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bang goes my chance of putting life into this topic..

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-gbotto600-
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sorry

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Hienz Guderian
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2 little known facts: Japs had a small native owned hawaiian island for a few days. A Jap flight of Zeros got in a fight with crusier-launched US seaplanes, one zero was forced to land on Niihau island, in the Hawaiin chain. The pilot got out and enlisted the help of 2 Japanese gardeners on the island. They took out his machine guns and set them up in the town. however, a native hawaiian got pissed and charged the machine gun. he got hit 3 times, but managed to bash the pilot's head in with a rock. 2. the Japs were going to use poison gas in the invasion of midway.
@ the invasion. Wouldn't have made a difference. the US economy would of gotten into the swimg of things and would have outproduced the Japs. WOuld have made war a bit longer though.

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Kre8havoc
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Just as a side note.

Japan was not actually targeting the carriers themselves at Pearl Harbour. They were actually targetting the Battleships. At the beggining of WW2, no nation on the planet knew what a carrier war was....remember, this was just after WW1. The Battleship was still the king of the sea.

Also keep in mind that Japan could not sustain a long term war against the US, and they knew that. So even if it did damage us substantially, the US would have eventually recovered on the continent and kicked their ass. When you attack the US like they did in Pearl Harbor, you piss us off. As Yamamoto said, "I fear that we have awaken a sleeping giant."

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ZachMan
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In their culture it went like this:

You slap someone, and that slapped person has their honor taken away and will not slap you back. Use that with Pearl Harbor, the Japanese thought the US wouldn't slap back. But we did, and then we kicked them in the balls.

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